I'm re watching this after not having seen it since it originally was in theaters and wow, just wow. SO much stuff happens that make NO sense.
Doctor Harford goes on house call, is hit on by his patient's wife who professes her undying love for him (hahahaha) and while walking home is accosted by a group of violent homophobes.
Then, he's approached by a prostitute and just willingly walks off with her to go have sex.
Then, still on his way home, he wanders into a night club and meets and old friend who tells him about a secret gathering.
Then, he runs right out to an all night costume shop and witnesses the proprietor catching his teenage daughter in a tryst with 2 cross dressing older Asian men (WTF).
I mean... WHAT makes sense about ANY of that? What we know about him is he's a pretty normal husband/father who has his own medical practice - nothing odd or weird about his character and then suddenly for no real reason at all, he goes full pervert. The secret society stuff isn't even the weirdest part of the story, ugh.
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Reply by movie_nazi
on November 29, 2017 at 3:01 PM
When exactly does the protagonist go "full pervert" as you say? I didn't see him dressing up as an infant and start going, "Mama! Hungry! boobie now!" .
I do agree that the film is probably Kubrick's worst. I' m not sure what he was trying to accomplish with this film. perhaps a nice nest egg for his family before he kicked the bucket? The only worthwhile cause to compromise one's art IMO.
Reply by FlyingSaucersAreReal
on November 29, 2017 at 4:12 PM
If Kubrick were trying to sell out, you'd think he'd do something a little more conventional and mainstream than this.
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 29, 2017 at 5:48 PM
Nah, he don't need to sell out THAT badly. It had been a while since he put out a film so I think he decided to do something to make some dough before he blew. The story is half baked IMO.
Reply by MongoLloyd
on November 29, 2017 at 6:21 PM
He goes from being thoughtful family man/doctor, caring for his patient and kindly putting off the sexual advance of his patient's wife to walking off with a prostitute and THEN attending a secret society get together featuring naked women, group sex, and orgies. Maybe not full pervert but when you consider his character, a huge difference.
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 29, 2017 at 7:11 PM
OK, now how does the child end up HIV positive if he bangs the hooker?
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 29, 2017 at 7:17 PM
I just think he let his curiosity get the better of him and as Invidia has pointed out he felt like half a man when he heard his wife say she had fantasized about other men (like who doesn't fantasize, gimme a break) and had to go out and make himself feel "like a man" and go bang him some strange. Nothing really pervy about that. Sounds like your typical American husband from the 1950s actually.![grin](/assets/emojis/v8/1f601.svg)
Reply by MongoLloyd
on November 29, 2017 at 8:19 PM
No sh!t.
And what does that have to do with THIS film? If they're trying to say Harford is a big pussy, ok, but then we see later on that he's pretty adventurous, so...
*Pretty irrelevant unless she's also been withholding sex from him. I didn't see anything to that effect. *
Still has nothing to do with his sudden urge to walk off with a street walker. It's a nifty coincidence, but...
DUN DUN DUNNNNN!
ERMAGHERD!
STOP THE PRESSES!
OH -- MAH -- GAHD .
Dude, you are blowing my mind right now.
Because normal people don't act like that? And he was depicted as being a pretty straight-laced, normal guy? Again, what exactly motivates Harford to go out of his way to attend the secret gathering in the first place? What prior indication did we get that he was in any way kinky or given to impulsive behavior. He pussies out when confronted by Chads, but then he's taking up with whores and sneaking into secret high society orgies. It's ludicrous.
It's all very clever (I guess), but my issues have not to do with the delicate interweaving of all the kinky story elements. Rather, as I mentioned, it's that all this stuff happens to Harford. What prompts Harford, who all we know about is that he's a family man and a doctor, to do ALL the bizarre sh!t he does? The writing is ludicrous and half-baked.
Reply by Renovatio
on November 30, 2017 at 4:30 AM
Jealousy can make you do stupid and risky things... Harford doesn't suddenky get adventurous because he becomes confident and curious, rather he is driven into these scenarios out of his sexual insecurity...
The simple idea that he was inadequate to his wife, drove him to this... it's not rarional, but it is a very realistic and human response when confronted by the fear of loss and inadequacy...
Also, I think Kubrick passed away before the film was edited fully... So maybe that's why it isn't as tight as his other films... It stikk is probably my favourite of his films...
Reply by Dark_Sithlord
on November 30, 2017 at 5:13 AM
Only seen this movie once, so I can't say if it's worse than I remember. While I didn't particularly like the movie, I did think it had some merit since I am a student of psychology. It's an interesting look into a descent into perversion from a seemingly normal lifestyle.
I'll probably check it out again at some point and see if it does get worse on a rewatch.
Reply by Renovatio
on November 30, 2017 at 7:28 AM
Hi Invidia
I had a feeling you'd be interested in this movie... It really touches on male psychological fragility in a way that isn't done in movies nowadays... An exception is "Enemy", which deals with the fear of monogamy and such...
Most movies that attempt to portray this in any way end up being very talky and full of exposition and explanations... Such as most of Woody Allen's neurotic man-child movies... Kubrick didn't do it that way here, instead he gives us Harford's subjective point of view and takes us on a crazy night in the city that mirror's his jealous state of mind...
Villineuve does something similar in Enemy.... Neither director bothers to explain things, or narrate them... This is great and a lot more effective, satisfying and cinematic than the monologue dominated Woody Allen type movies and the dialogue heavey TV series portrayals of people's emotional states (e.g. every TV show where people confess to a psychiatrist or priest, etc...), etc...
I think the way Harford feels is very normal and common... What his wife tells him destroys his sense of security in his relationship... He feels sexually inadequate by the simple thought she had...
Reply by Renovatio
on November 30, 2017 at 8:07 AM
Yeah, he was basically baiting her... I don't think he was expecting that comeback!
I haven't seen Cache yet... I'll check it out... Thanks
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 30, 2017 at 9:31 AM
This is one of those things that people just want to stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA! I'M NOT LISTENING!"
EVERYONE has sexual fantasies about people they find attractive. It's human nature. But most people (especially egocentric types) do not even wanna acknowledge it. I personally did not think Harford acted out in any weird type of manner. He childishly reacted to his wife's confession with "OH yeah! I'll show her!" and decided to go out and "have some fun" and at the very least "be even" with her.
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 30, 2017 at 11:17 AM
Well, I meant whether or not he bangs the hooker or not I did not think it was that unusual behavior. Whether one agrees with it or not is another story. I also do not think he endangered his child or even his patients by risking the HIV virus. The virus is not easy to spread outside blood transfusion and direct intimate sexual contact. Plus the chances of a male contracting HIV from heterosexual contact with a female are pretty low since he would have to ingest fluids from her body into his which as we all know is not nearly as prevalent as what the man shares with her. Not saying it is not possible but chances are lower as say direct homosexual contact where fluids are deposited into the receiver. As far as the child is concerned the chances of the mom mixing her blood with a child's open wound are pretty darn small. Too small to mention as a threat IMO. So YES, he engaging in protection free sexual contact does in fact endanger his wife but his child I do not think so. Nor his patients since a Dr. is pretty thorough when it comes to disinfecting.
Reply by movie_nazi
on November 30, 2017 at 11:59 AM
Yes with open sores and bleeding gums and the stars being aligned it is possible to contract it. But seriously, who the heck doesn't see an open sore in an intimate location and go "WHOA NELLY! I just remembered I left the stove on. See ya!" .
But you are right that he had some silly antiquated notion that women don't get horny like men do which seems kinda irrational from a doctor's perspective seeing they would be familiar with the physiology of humans and know that are one and the same. Thus is the power of social pressures I imagine. It can even influence going against proven science.
Reply by Purplehearts
on November 30, 2017 at 7:56 PM
This movie has always been stupid. I don't understand why you would wanna re watch it and this discussion is weird.