@Tsavo said:

@CelluloidFan said:

To borrow a phrase from a legendary filmmaker: "Deeds, not words."

A phrase that I recommend you spend a lot more time considering.

For your enlightenment, my smug internet friend(s) and for anyone who may be reading, I recommend the following articles. I realize the seriousness of the charge of anti-Semitism, so I’m providing them.

On Wikipedia there is an article titled Nazi Germany. I would give a link, but when I provide links on this site they initially never work.

This piece covers how during the 1930’s, Germany under Nazi control enacted measures over a period of time to define the status of Jews and their standing in society. This process led to the establishment of the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 - stripping Jews of their basic rights. This supports my point that, again, something like the Holocaust doesn’t happen all at once. It is a creeping phenomenon.

Look at an article on Wikipedia titled The Holocaust / the roots of anti-semitism in Europe. It specifically touches on how the Nazis were able to do this due to the cultural foundation of their anti-Semitic beliefs from hundreds of years before.

You don’t seem to respect me, Tsavo, and that’s fine. I don’t respect you either. I don’t really believe you’re an English teacher! Your criticisms and vituperation mean not a thing to me.

Again, I only wanted to make my disagreement to what I read here known. Nonstop, circular arguments about the nature of reality and my capabilities don’t interest me. At the end of the day, actions are supreme.

Have a nice weekend.

@CelluloidFan said:

@Tsavo said:

@CelluloidFan said:

To borrow a phrase from a legendary filmmaker: "Deeds, not words."

A phrase that I recommend you spend a lot more time considering.

For your enlightenment, my smug internet friend(s) and for anyone who may be reading, I recommend the following articles. I realize the seriousness of the charge of anti-Semitism, so I’m providing them.

On Wikipedia there is an article titled Nazi Germany. I would give a link, but when I provide links on this site they initially never work.

This piece covers how during the 1930’s, Germany under Nazi control enacted measures over a period of time to define the status of Jews and their standing in society. This process led to the establishment of the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 - stripping Jews of their basic rights. This supports my point that, again, something like the Holocaust doesn’t happen all at once. It is a creeping phenomenon.

Look at an article on Wikipedia titled The Holocaust / the roots of anti-semitism in Europe. It specifically touches on how the Nazis were able to do this due to the cultural foundation of their anti-Semitic beliefs from hundreds of years before.

You don’t seem to respect me, Tsavo, and that’s fine. I don’t respect you either. I don’t really believe you’re an English teacher! Your criticisms and vituperation mean not a thing to me.

Again, I only wanted to make my disagreement to what I read here known. Nonstop, circular arguments about the nature of reality and my capabilities don’t interest me. At the end of the day, actions are supreme.

Have a nice weekend.

Fortunately, reality doesn't care about what you think, and I don't need to prove anything to you. I tried to approach you in a more civil way, and yet you continue to condescend and lecture us because you simply cannot accept that you are wrong, your assumptions are deeply flawed, and you have spent this entire argument doubling down and defending a baseless accusation, ignoring context.

We all already know the history of the holocaust. You aren't the only one here who studied it. For the last time, you're attempting to defend hijacking this conversation about you. It's childish, it's arrogant, and I have wasted enough time dealing with someone who believes that being a "writer" means that they're qualified to lecture others about human nature, history, and interaction. Newsflash! It doesn't. I am done responding to you. Kindly grow up.

@mechajutaro said:

@Tsavo said:

@CelluloidFan said:

@Tsavo said:

@CelluloidFan said:

To borrow a phrase from a legendary filmmaker: "Deeds, not words."

A phrase that I recommend you spend a lot more time considering.

For your enlightenment, my smug internet friend(s) and for anyone who may be reading, I recommend the following articles. I realize the seriousness of the charge of anti-Semitism, so I’m providing them.

On Wikipedia there is an article titled Nazi Germany. I would give a link, but when I provide links on this site they initially never work.

This piece covers how during the 1930’s, Germany under Nazi control enacted measures over a period of time to define the status of Jews and their standing in society. This process led to the establishment of the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 - stripping Jews of their basic rights. This supports my point that, again, something like the Holocaust doesn’t happen all at once. It is a creeping phenomenon.

Look at an article on Wikipedia titled The Holocaust / the roots of anti-semitism in Europe. It specifically touches on how the Nazis were able to do this due to the cultural foundation of their anti-Semitic beliefs from hundreds of years before.

You don’t seem to respect me, Tsavo, and that’s fine. I don’t respect you either. I don’t really believe you’re an English teacher! Your criticisms and vituperation mean not a thing to me.

Again, I only wanted to make my disagreement to what I read here known. Nonstop, circular arguments about the nature of reality and my capabilities don’t interest me. At the end of the day, actions are supreme.

Have a nice weekend.

Fortunately, reality doesn't care about what you think, and I don't need to prove anything to you. I tried to approach you in a more civil way, and yet you continue to condescend and lecture us because you simply cannot accept that you are wrong, your assumptions are baseless, and you have spent this entire argument doubling down and defending a baseless accusation, ignoring context.

We all already know the history of the holocaust. You aren't the only on here who studied it. For the last time, you're attempting to defend hijacking this conversation about you. It's childish, it's arrogant, and I have wasted enough time dealing with someone who believes that being a "writer" means that they're qualified to lecture others about human nature, history, and interaction. Newsflash! It doesn't. I am done responding to you. Kindly grow up.

Let's get off of this Holocaust and Nazi debate, before we attract attention from the moderators. The OP(JCo singing, JCo in a bikini etc. etc. is already a stimulating enough topic as is

I agree, and I look forward to finding that album. I need to ask my friends if they know about it. A lot of the current generation seem rather unaware of anything coming from the 80's or 90's (You'd be surprised how many of them have seen Jurassic World, but never the original film).

@mechajutaro said:

The OP(JCo singing, JCo in a bikini etc. etc. is already a stimulating enough topic as is

Let's not forget her husband, her prince. They've been together for more than twenty years now.

@mechajutaro said:

@movie_nazi said:

@wonder2wonder said:

@movie_nazi said:

So I watched this for the first time since it was released in the theaters. I got a copy of the director's cut. Were the scenes of Connelly singing cut from the theatrical version? Because I do not remember that scene and I think I would have remembered her terrible singing.

Perhaps this will help. You can hear the difference.

♪ Jennifer Connelly - "The Night Has A Thousand Eyes"

♪ Anita Kelsey - "The Night Has a Thousand Eyes"

Oh my goodness! Good job! 👍 So I was right. Connelly does sing in the director's cut that I recently saw and the theatrical release had Kelsey's singing. I have a decent ear for music and I would have remembered if it was that bad when I saw it in the theaters.

And actually the track I had in mind was the standard "Sway" which plays out exactly the same:

Sway - Jennifer Connelly (Dark City Director's Cut s')

Anita Kelsey - Sway (Dark City)

The difference is night and day (yes Dark City pun intended 😁 ) .

There is worse

You lost me Mecha. What does a live version of Duran Duran's A View to a Kill have to do with this convo?

@BaronOfHair said:

@movie_nazi said:

@mechajutaro said:

@movie_nazi said:

@wonder2wonder said:

@movie_nazi said:

So I watched this for the first time since it was released in the theaters. I got a copy of the director's cut. Were the scenes of Connelly singing cut from the theatrical version? Because I do not remember that scene and I think I would have remembered her terrible singing.

Perhaps this will help. You can hear the difference.

♪ Jennifer Connelly - "The Night Has A Thousand Eyes"

♪ Anita Kelsey - "The Night Has a Thousand Eyes"

Oh my goodness! Good job! 👍 So I was right. Connelly does sing in the director's cut that I recently saw and the theatrical release had Kelsey's singing. I have a decent ear for music and I would have remembered if it was that bad when I saw it in the theaters.

And actually the track I had in mind was the standard "Sway" which plays out exactly the same:

Sway - Jennifer Connelly (Dark City Director's Cut s')

Anita Kelsey - Sway (Dark City)

The difference is night and day (yes Dark City pun intended 😁 ) .

There is worse

You lost me Mecha. What does a live version of Duran Duran's A View to a Kill have to do with this convo?

Hmmmmm.... His point seemed to be that there's worse singing out there than Connelly's crooning in Dark City. Personally, I agree with the folks in YT's comment section for that live version of A View To A Kill. It only sounds shabby to listeners who can't remember days before autotune, when audiences walked into a performance with the understanding that people in real life didn't sound exactly the way they did in studio recordings

Yeah, also the difference is Connelly is in studio and gets as many takes as she wants. Simon Lebon, first of all is a rock n roll singer who by no means are always known to be perfect singers. Secondly, that is a live performance and I bet at the time Duran Duran was touring so your voice tends to get a bit worn out when you are doing show after show.

@BaronOfHair said:

And in that performance, Duran Duran seemed to be going for more gritty and rocked out version of AVTAK; the fellas aren't even their usual flamboyant selves, as is the case in other live performances from this same era . There have better live performances in the history of music, nonetheless that rendition of AVTAK at Live Aid '85 isn't terrible, especially by the standards of it's day

I agree. It actually was not half bad. If I had gone to see a Duran Duran show back then and they sounded that close to the studio version of the song I would have been well pleased.

@BaronOfHair said:

Yeah. For every great live show The Beatles did during their early tours(of which there were relatively few), there are quite a few in which they sound like they're singing in tin can

"Beatless"

Can someone point out exactly which notes of Connelly's singing are bad?

The only real flaw I hear is that her enunciation is not that of a seasoned singer. She articulates a bit too much like spoken word, a common mistake that inexperienced singers--especially actors--often make, but that doesn't constitute bad singing. I consider bad singing to be off pitch, off tempo, or putting way too many melodramatic flourishes & vibrato into the performance. She didn't cross any of those lines. But like I said, if I missed something someone point out the exact note.

@rooprect said:

Can someone point out exactly which notes of Connelly's singing are bad?

The only real flaw I hear is that her enunciation is not that of a seasoned singer. She articulates a bit too much like spoken word, a common mistake that inexperienced singers--especially actors--often make, but that doesn't constitute bad singing. I consider bad singing to be off pitch, off tempo, or putting way too many melodramatic flourishes & vibrato into the performance. She didn't cross any of those lines. But like I said, if I missed something someone point out the exact note.

There's nothing really bad. Jennifer Connelly is just not quite as good a vocalist as Anita Kelsey, who of course is a professional singer.

I prefer the director's cut with Connelly singing, because the whole point is that Emma isn’t a lounge singer, but someone who has memories that tell her she is one. Even her body language on stage shows how uncomfortable she feels, and her singing matches that perfectly.

Dubbing singing voices is done more often than not, especially when the actors cannot sing for real or as good as the director want it to be for the movie.

An example is the musical "My Fair Lady (1964)".

Is Audrey Hepburn such a horrible singer that she had to be dubbed? No, her voice was just not strong enough.

♪ My Fair Lady (1964) - "I Could Have Danced All Night" - Audrey Hepburn 's own voice

♪ My Fair Lady (1964) - "I Could Have Danced All Night" - dubbed - Marni Nixon

Side note:

In the movie "La La Land (2016)" Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling weren't dubbed, although they couldn't sing very well. Yet they did win the Oscar for Best Original Song- "City of Stars".

@wonder2wonder said: I prefer the director's cut with Connelly singing, because the whole point is that Emma isn’t a lounge singer, but someone who has memories that tell her she is one. Even her body language on stage shows how uncomfortable she feels, and her singing matches that perfectly.

That's exactly what I was thinking... in that scene she looks uncomfortable so it makes sense that the director would want her voice to match. For the theatrical release the soundtrack department probably heard it out of context, and thought "Let's hire a professional singer." Movie studios make deals with record labels & radio stations to cross-promote each other, so all they care about is a soundtrack that can chart.

But sometimes the right music for the scene shouldn't sound professional. A great example of this is in Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence a war movie starring David Bowie. At one point he sings with his platoon, and he does an incredible job of NOT sounding like David Bowie. He sounds like an ordinary soldier singing. It really would've killed the scene if suddenly a beat-up prisoner of war sounded like a rock star!

Oh man... I miss the days before autotune...

Autotune has spoiled the hell out of everyone, and it doesn't even sound good. So many singers now sound far too similar to each other. That, paired with the over-industrialized lyrics has hurt the modern industry in more way than I can count.