The basic purpose of a screenplay was neglected in this, in that we need a likeable protagonist who's trying to overcome some opposing force in order to achieve something and in doing so, experiences growth.

All the other stuff isn't important if these basic elements aren't extant. I have a friend who writes a LOT of screenplays and he keeps sending them to me for notes, and I have to keep telling him the above because he somehow thinks if he has cutesy dialog and compelling stuff happening, that's enough. It's not.

@MongoLloyd said:

The basic purpose of a screenplay was neglected in this, in that we need a likeable protagonist who's trying to overcome some opposing force in order to achieve something and in doing so, experiences growth.

All the other stuff isn't important if these basic elements aren't extant. I have a friend who writes a LOT of screenplays and he keeps sending them to me for notes, and I have to keep telling him the above because he somehow thinks if he has cutesy dialog and compelling stuff happening, that's enough. It's not.

Right. The only time what you're mentioning might not apply is probably with some avant-garde cinema, like by Kenneth Anger or Maya Deren. Then, all bets are off... but yeah, we do like to live vicariously through that protagonist.

It was far from the worst film in a long time, but it was overrated. It was definitely a good, well made film and Sandler was very good in it. But all the 5 star reviews are a bit much. I don't really understand the craze for the Safdie brothers. Good Time was ok but fairly forgettable.

@CelluloidFan said:

@MongoLloyd said:

The basic purpose of a screenplay was neglected in this, in that we need a likeable protagonist who's trying to overcome some opposing force in order to achieve something and in doing so, experiences growth.

All the other stuff isn't important if these basic elements aren't extant. I have a friend who writes a LOT of screenplays and he keeps sending them to me for notes, and I have to keep telling him the above because he somehow thinks if he has cutesy dialog and compelling stuff happening, that's enough. It's not.

Right. The only time what you're mentioning might not apply is probably with some avant-garde cinema, like by Kenneth Anger or Maya Deren. Then, all bets are off... but yeah, we do like to live vicariously through that protagonist.

Also, last night I watched something by Med Hondo (he's Mauritarian), and I remembered that African cinema has different expectations of it than what you're talking about. For example, in American cinema, the lone protagonist is heroic and possibly to be emulated. In African cinema, it tends to be all about the community... once you leave the group, usually that's the end for you.

My point? Don't impose your values on everyone across the board - different people have different paradigms to live by.

I'm talking about basic screenplay structure in the West. Tell you what, go make a movie that ignores basic screenplay structure in the West and release it to an American audience and see what happens. This isn't about my "values." I didn't invent modern film storytelling.

@JustinJackFlash said:

It was far from the worst film in a long time, but it was overrated. It was definitely a good, well made film and Sandler was very good in it. But all the 5 star reviews are a bit much. I don't really understand the craze for the Safdie brothers. Good Time was ok but fairly forgettable.

OK, how 'bout this?: The absolute worst movie I've seen in a long time with an A-lister playing the lead.

@MongoLloyd said:

The basic purpose of a screenplay was neglected in this, in that we need a likeable protagonist who's trying to overcome some opposing force in order to achieve something and in doing so, experiences growth.

All the other stuff isn't important if these basic elements aren't extant. I have a friend who writes a LOT of screenplays and he keeps sending them to me for notes, and I have to keep telling him the above because he somehow thinks if he has cutesy dialog and compelling stuff happening, that's enough. It's not.

You sort of made it sound like everyone has to write their scripts the way that you stated up above, which obscures the fact that screenwriters in Senegal or Mauritania might have their own way of doing things. That's all. Let's just leave it at that, eh? I disliked the movie too, you know?

I couldn't care less what screenwriters in Senegal or Mauritania are doing. When was the last time a film from those countries was embraced in the West?

Well.... I don't know about "embraced," but the reason why I checked out Mauritanian filmmaker Med Hondo's Oh, Sun is because your man Martin Scorsese included it in a recent project he's doing with the Criterion Collection in order to showcase international film.

To my great pleasure, the Criterion Collection is also releasing a well-scrubbed presentation of Ousmane Sembene's Mandabi early this year. The late Mr. Sembene is from Senegal. He's considered by many to be the father of African cinema, by the way.

"Criterion Collection"... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Lol, carry on...

You really think he doesn't get offered lead roles in studio films? Just judging by the apparent popularity of this dreck, I think it's safe to say he still has a huge fan base, but he's worth $300 Million, so ya think he's kind of over playing goofballs in goofball comedies?

@MongoLloyd said:

You really think he doesn't get offered lead roles in studio films? Just judging by the apparent popularity of this dreck, I think it's safe to say he still has a huge fan base, but he's worth $300 Million, so ya think he's kind of over playing goofballs in goofball comedies?

I would find it unlikely that the appeal for this film is due to Sandler's presence. Just as the appeal of Punch Drunk Love was PT Anderson rather than the gentleman in question. I get it that it is kind of intriguing when a comedy actor does something more serious and challenging. Like Jim Carey doing The Truman Show or Eternal Sunshine. And Sandler does seem to be surprisingly talented when he wants to be.

But I can't imagine in a million years Sandler's typical fanbase watching and commending this. It's just not their bag at all. It's this aforementioned novelty that probably drew more attention to the film. It's what drew my attention. I don't watch his usual schtick that gets vomited out onto Netflix every 5 minutes. Rob Schneider was releasing those kind of comedies for years. Did that make him A list?

@JustinJackFlash said:

But I can't imagine in a million years Sandler's typical fanbase >watching and commending this. It's just not their bag at all.

You should check out the 10/10 user reviews on IMDb for this title:

"Adam Sandlers Beautiful performance make this movie easily one of 2019's best films"

"Adam Sandler has the performance of his career..."

"Firstly Sandler is brilliant."

"Adam Sandler delivers a stellar performer as New York Diamond District Jeweler"

"... Adam Sandler and he deserves to get a nomination for best actor and also deserves to win it."

"For anyone that thinks Adam Sandler is a one trick pony who only does stupid comedies, take a look at the complex role he plays here."

"I refuse to let go of this review without mentioning Adam Sandler's performance. MY GOSH he has executed his character so brilliantly due to his understanding of the character."

Rob Schneider was releasing those kind of comedies for years. > Did that make him A list?

Do you even know what "A-list" means?

@MongoLloyd said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

But I can't imagine in a million years Sandler's typical fanbase >watching and commending this. It's just not their bag at all.

You should check out the 10/10 user reviews on IMDb for this title:

"Adam Sandlers Beautiful performance make this movie easily one of 2019's best films"

"Adam Sandler has the performance of his career..."

"Firstly Sandler is brilliant."

"Adam Sandler delivers a stellar performer as New York Diamond District Jeweler"

"... Adam Sandler and he deserves to get a nomination for best actor and also deserves to win it."

"I refuse to let go of this review without mentioning Adam Sandler's performance. MY GOSH he has executed his character so brilliantly due to his understanding of the character."

Did you happen to note the authors names? Did they go by such monikers as Sandler Lover101, Happiest Gilmore, Sandler Management, Adam Sandler's no1 fAn!! or SavinMyslf4Sandler?

If not then how can you possibly tell these are typical Adam Sandler fans?

"For anyone that thinks Adam Sandler is a one trick pony who only does stupid comedies, take a look at the complex role he plays here."

This one even clearly demonstrates the opposite by describing his body of work as "stupid comedies".

Rob Schneider was releasing those kind of comedies for years. > Did that make him A list?

Do you even know what "A-list" means?

It's a kind of loosely defined list that has never featured nor will ever feature the name- Rob Schneider.